Just got back from a FBOS "first bike on scene" course at the West county Ambulance Headquarters.
I was amazed to hear the instructor state that MX style full face helmets caused many more injuries to face due to the rigid chin guard (which flexes on a standard full face) and neck injuries caused by the peak then on standard full face helmets. He thought they should be banned on the road.
I asked about open face helmets and he said their was not enough data to make a comment. Surely open face helmets have been around much longer than full face helmets and if they were injuries to the face / neck / head routinely recorded then their would be data? Maybe open face helmet riders are in fewer accidents where injuries are present?
-- Edited by kevinred on Saturday 26th of February 2011 04:46:05 PM
Hmmm I'd suggest that we ban ambulance men making sweeping statements! Where's lost? he's one of them!! Anyway open face helmets are known to allow more injury theres less protection for frontal injury- thats why full face helmets were designed, I'm old enough to remember the first ones!
But helmets all are to reduce injury, I imagine Mr Ambulance driver would rather someone wore a MX helmet rather than none at all! The peak issue is interesting, Last week I'd never have got home without my peak, firstly to deflect Harty's roosting tendencies and secondly to shade the goggles as I rode back into the sun.
I would have thought that if the helmet was a good fit and has the relevent saftey test and is marked as such, the design of the helmet shell should not really be an issue. Riders seem to spend more money on a helmet designed for road use, than a off road style helmet, so build quality might be a factor. I can't really see that the peak would cause too many problems, most would break off in a collision. I wonder how the higher end of the market off road style helmets, like the Arai TourX and Shoei hornetDS would compare against, both cheaper off road style and full face road helmets. Interesting though! But, just one persons view!!
Chris.
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It would appear that I am quite grumpy today; strangely, I didnt notice this until I came into contact withidiots.
Some modern helmets have the peak held on a little ridgidly for my liking. My old Bell Moto 4 has a wafer thin peak held on with small plastic screws. This will pull off easily in an accident. Have you also noticed how the modern trend for MX helmets is going ? The chin guard sticks out further and further each year ! No wonder riders wear neck braces with all that leverage out the front ! Surprise, surprise, the manufacturers have to make the chin piece more rigid as it sticks out further. The only modern helmet not following that trend seem to be the Arai motocross ones.
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Politicians are like nappies. They need changing often, and usually for the same reason.
This ambulance chap was an "educator" he seemed to like facts and figures. I'm in no doubt he's correct with his stats, but stats can be misleading.
I guess most MX helmets are "cheaper" than some of the road equivalents (Ok I'm not talking racing just general use) Also MX helmets seem pretty trendy at the moment. Trendy and cheap attracts younger riders who statistically are at higher risk of accidents.
I see what he means about the peak as if you came off at 60mph and rolled along, its conceivable as you flipped over the peak could dig into the ground and damage the wearers neck as the body continues to roll and the head resists the turn?
However if Im on my sports bike I don't use my MX helmet as the peak catches the wind and its draughty and noisy as hell compared to my Shuberth Full face, But conversely the MX helmet is hard to beat in the lanes and the peak has a couple of useful functions.
The only modern helmet not following that trend seem to be the Arai motocross ones.
Lets face it the Arai helmets are at the forefront of modern helmet tech and the price reflects this. I guess not many of the "stats" were wearing Arai lids?
Once found myself in Wonford casualty where the duty consultant grabbed my open face helmet and shouted loud enough to make everbody in sight look up "Look at this! And he's still got all his teeth!"
I was the fourth open face wearer through the dept that week, and the first not to need major reconstructive facial surgery.
On tarmac my Shoei full face is great, but I like the all round visibility of the open face in the lanes and I ride accordingly. The combine harvester just round the corner with two cars inching past did catch me out that day though on my way home from a short 191-077/088/087/089 loop en route to buy a loaf of bread. Killed my 3 week old CRM250 but boots,knee pads,back,elbow,shoulder and hip protection meant colourful bruising and nothing broken but the bike and a car.
Each to his own. If you want to race then wear full protection. If you want to ride at TRF speeds, 25mph remember, then why would you need all that? First impressions count for a lot and if you look like a motocross rider people will think you ride like one.
When I was a younster new to this biking lark, I remember seeing my friends full face helmit after a crash in which he broke his leg. The chin piece was ground down from skidding across the tarmac. Without it he would have lost a fair chuck of his face. I've always worn a full face since.
SteveGT wrote: ground down from skidding across the tarmac.
I learnt from a friend early on too, to never ride without gloves for the very same reason. It's natural instinct to put your hands out to stop a fall. Not good, even at 25/30 mph on tarmac! I always wear full protection when riding, whatever the weather.
Chris.
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It would appear that I am quite grumpy today; strangely, I didnt notice this until I came into contact withidiots.
sweep sweep sweep sweep sweep sweep sweep sweep plonker? no you should not take everythink as said you should use a little gumption at times the service is going to the dogs woof ?
Pete wrote: If you want to ride at TRF speeds, 25mph remember, then why would you need all that? First impressions count for a lot and if you look like a motocross rider people will think you ride like one.
This voluntry maximum speed is for the green lanes. Unfortuantely there's lot's of hard tarmac between lanes that we ride upto the legal limit of the road (eg 70mph if we're coming hole via A38 etc etc). Therefore you wouldnt catch me wearing an open facer just so I can show a happier face to the 1 or 2 walkers I might see on a day out. I have stopped and chatted to walkers and horsee people both old and young and always had a good repore with 99% of them. As you say though - each to his own and I guess there's always going to be bias/views in each corner.
I do wonder where the Airoh would stand in Mr Paramedics stats?? A full face with a slightly extended chin-piece. Best of both??? or worst??
I certainly wouldn't wear an MX helmet to go swimming. Everything is dangerous, it is what you hit that makes the difference. Beware of sweeping statements from professionals.
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Avoiding risk avoids excitement, even Snow White turned away Elf and Safety...
I certainly wouldn't wear an MX helmet to go swimming. Everything is dangerous, it is what you hit that makes the difference. Beware of sweeping statements from professionals.
Well said for once Simmo
Didn't young Casey Stoner once celebrate winning a WSB round by jumping into a lake with his lid on - and nearly drowned
-- Edited by L'orange on Sunday 27th of February 2011 11:19:04 AM
Each to their own - open face for me and if It wasn't law then probably wouldn't wear one at all on the lanes ( Oooo shock horror)....maybe a nice flat cap though
The only way of being sure you won't get hurt is to give up
I rode in India with no helmet but didn't like the insect strikes on my face and head, some bloody well hurt. So I got one.
Over here I like an open face on my Triumph Scrambler but always wear eye protection,
a Wulf MX helmet on my DRZ when on the lanes, great for bashing through the bushes when needed, and a full face on my Triumph T595 sports, cos the open face tries to lift and leave from wind pressure behind the fairing.
Nothing to do with safety just comfort and practicality.
Well then yer ed's to small, yer lids to big, or your going mega quick as I wear mine on an unfaired bike and have been 'quite fast' (have had my goggles blow off when I lifted my head once on the M5 nr Taunton) but have never had my Davida lift
Well then yer ed's to small, yer lids to big, or your going mega quick as I wear mine on an unfaired bike and have been 'quite fast' (have had my goggles blow off when I lifted my head once on the M5 nr Taunton) but have never had my Davida lift
its not too big, and its the right size if anything its a bit tight...... you know the answer
as i was taking my bike test one of the examiners pulled a face at my mx style helmet, tutting, saying it would grab more on the tarmac if i came off. like the rest of the comments on here, you have to do what feels right for you!
I'd just like to add that all the times in my youth that I a have been force to participate in tarmac sliding (and the few time on grass or mud), my head has naturally turned sideways upon hitting the ground. I think it's instinct to turn your face away from and obstacle (or ground) as it approaches.
I suppose the issue would be if you were to start rolling, the extended chin guard and peak may be enough to stop your head following your body...
My head has naturally turned sideways upon hitting the ground. I think it's instinct to turn your face away from and obstacle (or ground) as it approaches.
I think this has failed on many an occasion, having seen some of the ugly mugs on here
-- Edited by doug9270 on Monday 28th of February 2011 02:57:41 PM
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My head has naturally turned sideways upon hitting the ground. I think it's instinct to turn your face away from and obstacle (or ground) as it approaches.
I think this has failed on many an occasion, having seen some of the ugly mugs on here
-- Edited by doug9270 on Monday 28th of February 2011 02:57:41 PM
Oooo shock horror)....maybe a nice flat cap though 
as I wear mine on an unfaired bike and have been 'quite fast' (have had my goggles blow off when I lifted my head once on the M5 nr Taunton) but have never had my Davida lift 
