Devon TRF Group Forum

Tigerman · Expert

Insurance Renewal.......

Pearcy · Expert

I use ebike - got two bikes on it and found them pretty good.

grouty · Expert

Carole Nashe.
Did me a great deal on the 3 bikes I have for the road.
Even had an agreed value policy on the old KLX and Husky.
All fully comp for about £150
Cannot remember the exact cost, but excellent value for money.
There is an old thread on here from last year on this subject.

TTR · Powermonger!!

Before you go for the cheapest policy (not saying you would mind you), check whether there is an admin charge every time you make a little (or big!) change to the policy. Sometimes this can be as much as £25 a pop.

eBike doesn't charge for mid-term changes and they can easily be done online.

TTR

wackyracer · Powermonger!!

Also there was a big fuss a couple of yrs back about trail riding and being insured to do so...
Yes sounds absurd as it is, simply coz we ride legal carriage ways but some insurance companies DONT reckonise unsurface roads/off tarmac!

i asked before carrying out with my insurance and the chap had to go and check with his supervisor wink

but all checked out in the end most definitely worth asking smile

laterz wacky smile

L'orange · Devon's Best

check out e-bike, eazy-peezy and cheap as chips as long as your happy to deal with it all on yer PC.

xtriple · Champion

E' bike are fine so long as you don't mind having to walk to the library to get your drivers licence photocopied sending that off and generally arsing about!

Plus, they sell your details to all and sundry!

Carole Nash has just done me yet another cracking deal: Yamaha YZF 1000R, Bonnie, XT500, Kawasaki KH 250 and the yam IT 465 all fully comp for........

Wait for it.......

keep waiting........

£195.01!!!!!1

TTR · Powermonger!!

xtriple wrote:

E' bike are fine so long as you don't mind having to walk to the library to get your drivers licence photocopied sending that off and generally arsing about!

Plus, they sell your details to all and sundry!

They must be picking on you Dave coz I have not had any problems like that with eBike - are we talking about the same lot? See http://www.ebikeinsurance.co.uk/

Two TTRs and the Enfield fully comp £152.25. Same price when I had the GS1150 on it. You can also print your own certificate if you are in a hurry wink

Does Carole Nash charge anything for mid-term changes?

xtriple · Champion

Why do I need to send to you a copy of my Driving Licence?
A copy of the Counterpart and both the front and rear of your driving licence photo card is required for you and all drivers named on the policy. This must be received by Us within 23 days from the commencement of your policy. This enables Us to validate the details you have provided to Us for your motor insurance policy. By doing this we can reduce fraud, therefore keeping your insurance premiums low.

Note: If your policy is cancelled by Us due to non receipt of a copy driving licence of all driving licences for you and any drivers named on the policy You will be entitled to a refund of the premium paid on receipt of your certificate of insurance subject to a £75 administration charge for the costs incurred by Us in issuing the policy and a deduction for the period of cover you have had.You must return your certificate to us within 21 days or no refund will be allowed. We will not refund any premium if you have made a claim or if one has been made against you during the period of cover.

If, when you provide your Driving Licence to us we identify discrepancies and/or non-disclosures which do not correspond to the information you have provided online when you purchased your policy, we may cancel your policy or apply the correct additional premium and a 20% non disclosure administration fee.
If your policy is cancelled you will be entitled to a refund of the premium paid on receipt of your certificate of insurance subject to a £75 administration charge for the costs incurred by us in issuing the policy and a deduction for the period of cover you have had. You must return your certificate to us within 21 days or no refund will be allowed. We will not refund any premium if you have made a claim or if one has been made against you during the period of cover.

Taken straight from their website that you linked. Seems to me to be a good way of screwing you out of extra money for any "discrepancies" they will make a 20% "Non disclosure admin fee"

No other insurance company do this, nor do most of them sell your details for cold callers yet E bike do so just another way for them to make money.

xtriple · Champion

And yes, Carole Nash charges like a wounded Rhino for mid term changes -£25 per change if I recall correctly.

Still, wouldn't go with e berk on principal!

Mind you, not many insure moderns and classics on the same policy, nor do many of them even recognise the IT as insurable - Bennets wouldn't even touch it!

Torr · Expert

I have always found Calol Nash to be reasonable..... however I ALWAYS now go shopping around for a better price... then go back to Nash and say so and so have offered me this... watch out for bennets.. offered me same AVIVA 2 bike policy but did not include breakdown or 30 day europe cover! and then phoned me back 5 nights in a row demanding I accept their policy!!

Whatever happened to the NU Riders policy... as many bikes as you liked any age any ccc all fof £10.00..............

Cars are with co-op as seem to do cheaper car[ annd camper] cover

wish I could shop around for boat insurance.. only Knox~Johnson will cover non marina 3rd party!

Steve H · Devon's Best

I used aquote here, £85.05 fully comp, low xcess & covered 3rd party to ride other bikes smile

xtriple · Champion

I remember the good old riders policy, we used to own, and insure collectively (about ten of us) a Suzuki B120P and then we all rode Z1000's on the policy.

Perhaps that level of abuse was why the policy got canned?

That poor little Suzuki got stolen and half the insurance brokers in S****horpe went bust!

Biff · Expert

Insurance

Lost · Expert

There used to be a policy called riders policy ?used to let you ride anythink ?

RichT4 · Champion

your probably still covered from the car policy though - worth checking..

KronreifTrunkenpolzMattighofen · Devon's Best

Insurance on the KTM lets me ride anything....

Biff · Expert

It was the engine size of 300cc that makes the differance

Torr · Expert

most policies allow you to drive other machines not belonging to you and not hired to you under a hire purchase aggreement,
beware if you existing policy is not comprehensive you may only be covered for third party liability or worse road traffic act only!

I use Carol Nash as a broker... Norwich Union used to do a Riders Policy covering any bike you owned... but alas no longer.

Strange I cover a 230cc and a 900cc bike for £90, but was quoted £90 for the 230cc alone,
my suggestion is buy a large powerful street bike and get the Gasser covered for free!

It pays to shop around,....... 3 of my vintage bikes are coverd on a no use policy against fire and theft for no added preium on my home owners policy (Ecclesiastical)

xtriple · Champion

Biff, same here mate. When I changed from the 450 to the 230 I was informed that my insurance no longer covers me to ride other bikes. Not a worry for me as I've got another policy for bikes, that does but it seems to be that below a certain cc you're no longer covered for other bikes.

potus · Clubman A

Beware, I bagged 6 points thinking my car policy covered me to ride someone elses motorbike...............it didn't.

Check the wording, car policies generally say 'any other motor car' not 'any motor vehicle' nowadays....

Steve H · Devon's Best

I'm with A Quote. My comprehensive policy on the TTR (250) covers me to ride any other bike. That, low xcess & a cheap quote is why I went with them.

Be warned though, I believe they are very expensive if you want to change details i.e. change your bike mid way through the year.

As I don't intend to change the TTR it's not an issue for me.

Ming · Devon's Best

Mine's coming up for renewal in a few weeks - will make sure I ask about alternative bike cover wink

Thought my existing policy (ebike) covered me to ride any other bike on 3rd party only as long as it isn't bigger engine size than my own....unlikely then, given the tiddler status of the CRF confuse

potus · Clubman A

Ming wrote:

Mine's coming up for renewal in a few weeks - will make sure I ask about alternative bike cover

Thought my existing policy (ebike) covered me to ride any other bike on 3rd party only as long as it isn't bigger engine size than my own....unlikely then, given the tiddler status of the CRF

I was insured with ebike at the time I made my 'error of judgement', policy only covered me for my (2) bikes listed on the policy, no other 3rd party cover. Seems like the insurers are tightening up a bit on the flexibility of some policies. I'm sure there are some good policies still out there but they are few and far between.

I always read the finer details of motor policies now,

Pete · Devon's Best

Norwicj Union(now Aviva)do a rider policy which allows up to five bikes,as well as other bikes not belonging to you and not hired to you under a hire purchase aggreement.

Other peoples bikes are only 3rd party cover even if you are fully comp but it allows some flexibility by prioviding the minimum legal cover so you can try before you buy.

The policy is priced on the highest insurance group machine,the other bikes are virtually free.

Biker friendly insurance broker Roadsure is now trading as Premium Choice.

Torr · Expert

Will have to ask Aviva again, my present policy is with them.. via Carol Nash.. and was informed after having a Riders Policy for 40 plus years, without claim, they didn't do it anymore.

Time to change broker, methinks!!

TTR · Powermonger!!

I could only find a single bike policy quote on Aviva but it was interesting to run through it.

A bit confusing though. At first reading I thought it was saying I could ride anyone else's bike and anyone else could ride mine - but does it confuse

What does it mean in the bits I highlighted? Does it mean that riders and bikes have to be on the certificate to qualify? If so that is a nonsense. Can anyone put me straight please?

I am trying to find a cheap way of allowing my son Matt (or anyone else come to that) borrow my spare bike to go trail riding with me.

PS I always love an insurance thread - better than engine oil ones biggrin

Your liability

We will insure you for all amounts

which you may have to pay as a result

of you being legally liable for:

a another persons death or injury;

b damage to another persons

property, up to a maximum amount of

£20,000,000 (excluding that persons

costs and expenses) and up to

£5,000,000 for that persons costs and

expenses and any other costs and

expenses incurred with our written

consent in relation to damage to their

property as a result of an accident

caused by the following:

Your motorcycle.

Any other motorcycle ridden by you in

the Territorial Limits as long as:

that motorcycle does not belong to

you, and is not being hired to you

under a hire-purchase agreement;

and

your certificate of motor

insurance shows that you are

insured to ride that motorcycle.

We will also pay any expenses you have

our written permission to claim.

Liability of other people riding or

using your motorcycle

On the same basis that we insure you

under this section, we will also insure

the following persons:

Any person riding your motorcycle

with your permission, as long as

your certificate of motor

insurance allows that person to ride

your motorcycle.

Any person using (but not riding)

your motorcycle with your

permission, for social, domestic and

pleasure purposes.

Any person travelling on or getting

on or off your motorcycle.

Legal personal representatives

TTR · Powermonger!!

Whilst looking for Aviva's (NU's) multi-bike policy I found this:

Can I cover more than one motorcycle on this policy?We don't offer a "rider" policy, which allows you to cover more than one motorcycle, so you would need to take out a different policy for each bike.However, we do offer a multi-product discount of 15% if you take out more than one motorcycle insurance policy with us (or if you already have car or home insurance with Aviva).

devondan · Champion

I think it means that your certificate has to state that you can ride other bikes and that other people are covered to ride your bike so long as they are named on the certificate.

When you find a policy that does what you're after let me know cos I want to do the same!!

Dan

brownie · Expert

when i had my xlr 250 my insurance covered me to ride anyone elses bike with their permision and then it only covered me 3rd party.

then i got the xl600 and for that and my xr400 it was only £89 last year (3rd party f+f)
with aviva, but this year i decide to shop around.
when i couldnt find a cheapper quote i went back to them ,but because i didnt take up the offer before my initial insurance ran out(by one day) i had to renew with a fresh quote,
they then said that aviva no longer insure for carrying a pillion.(but they would have had to carry on if i didnt let it lapse)

its a bit of a mind field out there!

Pete · Devon's Best

Each bike gets it's own certificate which states that the policyholder is entitled to drive it.
The policyholder it goes on to say,under the terms of section 2 of the policy,may also drive a motorcycle not belonging to him or hired to him under a hire purchase or lease agreement.

This means the relevant bit that you quoted from section 2 which shows that
"your certificate of motor
insurance shows that you are
insured to ride that motorcycle."

IE;in order to be able to ride other peoples motorcycles your own insurance must state on your certificate that you are entitled to ride other peoples motorcycles,and anyone else riding your motorcycle must also have the same clause on their own policy.

Matt will need his own insurance,unless you put him on as a named driver on your policy which would not entitle him to ride any other than your machines as only the policyholder has the entitlement.
This would also probably mean he does not accumulate any no claims bonus as the policy is not in his name.

Should he have his own insurance,he will also need to be aged 25 or over at the commencement of the policy in order to take advantage of the other bikes thing.

The goverment does not want blanket insurance certificates anywhere in the market,hence the end of the oh so convenient rider policy which the authorities saw as a thieves charter.

A name and a registration mark is necessary for a certificate and it is nercessary for the policyholder to satisfy the preconditions imposed regarding age and holding the appropriate licence for any borrowed machine.

-- Edited by Pete on Tuesday 31st of August 2010 10:18:58 PM

TTR · Powermonger!!

Thanks Pete - the muddy waters are clearing!

Matt currently has one of my TTRs registered in his name and he has his own insurance with me and my bro' Tony on it. Sadly Matt had a bump in his car and it is affecting the quotes. I was trying to see a cheaper way of allowing him to ride with me on the rare occasions that is possible these days.

Now that I see that I could take out an Aviva policy that allows him or anyone else to ride the insured bike Third Party, that may be the way we go.

-- Edited by TTR on Tuesday 31st of August 2010 10:23:36 PM

Wheely · Expert

Also remember that if your policy allows you to ride 'any other motorcycle with the owners permissions etc etc' then that said motorcycle that you ride must be registered as insured by someone else. If its not then not only may you receive points for this, but the vehicle may be impounded until valid insurance is in place.

delvey91 · Devon's Best

Im insured tpft with MCE on the KTM but i cant find any thing about riding other bikes in any of the policy wording? Good job i read through it though as just realised it comes with rac recovery aswell

didnt even realise. Bonus

Torr · Expert

Pete wrote:

Each bike gets it's own certificate which states that the policyholder is entitled to drive it.
The policyholder it goes on to say,under the terms of section 2 of the policy,may also drive a motorcycle not belonging to him or hired to him under a hire purchase or lease agreement.

This means the relevant bit that you quoted from section 2 which shows that
"your certificate of motor
insurance shows that you are
insured to ride that motorcycle."

IE;in order to be able to ride other peoples motorcycles your own insurance must state on your certificate that you are entitled to ride other peoples motorcycles,and anyone else riding your motorcycle must also have the same clause on their own policy.

Matt will need his own insurance,unless you put him on as a named driver on your policy which would not entitle him to ride any other than your machines as only the policyholder has the entitlement.
This would also probably mean he does not accumulate any no claims bonus as the policy is not in his name.

Should he have his own insurance,he will also need to be aged 25 or over at the commencement of the policy in order to take advantage of the other bikes thing.

The goverment does not want blanket insurance certificates anywhere in the market,hence the end of the oh so convenient rider policy which the authorities saw as a thieves charter.

A name and a registration mark is necessary for a certificate and it is nercessary for the policyholder to satisfy the preconditions imposed regarding age and holding the appropriate licence for any borrowed machine.

-- Edited by Pete on Tuesday 31st of August 2010 10:18:58 PM

My policies are the same, one for each bike insured.

Noticed that mopeds are no longer included FOC on my car and motorhome policy..... probably due to the individual certificate requirement!

Stupid Government.... when did thieves bother with such niceties as insurance!!

Pete · Devon's Best

A warning regarding Aviva's multibike policy.

Under exclusions;
Use in any competition,trial,performance test,race or trial of speed,including off-road events,whether between motor vehicles or otherwise,and irrespective of whether this takes place on any circuit or track,formed or otherwise,and regardless of any statutory authorisation of any such event.

Looks like I will not be riding at any more TRF fund raising events or entering LDT's.
Having read this I wonder just how many of the riders who attend TRF events actually have valid insurance.
I note that the Somerset TRF event specifically says riders should check their policy covers off-road use.
I suspect that most,like me,think their policy would cover suchlike but have not read all the smallprint

Good job I know a few lanes here and there.

TTR · Powermonger!!

They can't duck out of RTA insurance in any "public" place Pete whether it be Sainsbury's car park or Haccadown.

Noel is the expert on this but I know the whole thing has been gone into in great depth.

Shaggy · Clubman B

Is Haccadown and the likes of "public" places though?? After all, they are tracks/circuits etc or similar and used in such ways as listed by Pete. I'm pretty sure all insurance policies state this?! The risk is alot higher hence the lack of coverage.

-- Edited by Shaggy on Thursday 2nd of September 2010 07:15:03 PM

Ming · Devon's Best

So........nobody's legally going to the Somerset TRF event then????? confuse

Torr · Expert

so if you have a bump in Sainsburys car park your not covered... that's on private land ?

-- Edited by Torr on Thursday 2nd of September 2010 07:38:57 PM

Shaggy · Clubman B

See thats where at least me gets confused because 'Sainsbury's etc is a public place, open to the public?! You need vehicle insurance to ride/drive on that land however, WWB/Haccadown etc you dont?! Forgive me peeps, I aint trying to stir things up, mearly trying to find the facts!!!! ;o)

delvey91 · Devon's Best

Well on my insurance it says

"Excludes all you on closed course competive events including: road racing, motocross, enduro, trials, hill climbing etc etc"

But the key word there is "competitive" and all trf events are always non competitive so thats the way of getting round it?

Pete · Devon's Best

Re;
"They can't duck out of RTA insurance in any "public" place Pete whether it be Sainsbury's car park or Haccadown"

I do not think Haccadown would stand up to scrutiny if tested as a 'public' place.

Sainsburys is a public place where the public are free to come and go and it is viewed as a natural extension of the public highway network because it is treated as such,albeit with usage cnetred around shop opening hours it is open to the public without let or hindrance
Haccadown is a place where entrance to an off-road event is purchased and strict criteria apply,nobody could regard it as a public highway.

My insurance says under exclusions;
"Use in any ...off-road events,whether between motor vehicles or otherwise"

Re;
"non competitive so thats the way of getting round it?"

I take the "whether between motor vehicles or otherwise"part to mean the event need not be competative in nature.

The off-road bit is hard to argue regarding Haccadown unless Noel decides to dedicate a new Byway Open to All Traffic of a circular nature for addition to the Definative Map held by the Public Rights Of Way Department.

Torr · Expert

Perhaps you as a rider are just not insured against any risk when on private land

You take the risk on yourself

as it is on private land not accessible to the public you can do whatever you like

no helmet, speed restriction age limit, etc etc... with the landowners permission of course

Requesting that bikes are road registered, taxed, insured for road use and legal and quiet, is surely to prohibit noisey all out moto X bikes and the like.

Organisers can indemnify themselves against liability towards users, riders etc... by getting you to sign an indemnitiy form.

Negligence would have to be proved in the case of any claim.

Big can of worms ????

KronreifTrunkenpolzMattighofen · Devon's Best

Motorcycle Direct

Taken from my current certificate

Section 6.

Limitations as to use subject to the exclusions below.

USE FOR ONLY SOCIAL, DOMESTIC AND PLEASURE PURPOSES EXCLUDING USE BE ANY PERSON TRAVELLING TO AND FROM HIS/HER PLACE OF WORK/BUSINESS/STUDY, AND EXCLUDING USE FOR THE FOR THE PURPOSE OF ANY PROFESSION, TRADE, BUSINESS, EMPLOYMENT, DESPATCH, COURIER, MESSENGER OR FOOD DELIVERY SERVICE.

EXCLUSIONS:

USE FOR HIRING, RACING, PACE-MAKING, TRACK DAYS, SPEED TESTING OR USE FOR THE CARRIAGE OF PASSENGERS FOR HIRE OR REWARD.

USE FOR HIRE OR REWARD AS A COURIER, DESPATCH RIDER OR FOR FOOD DELIVERY.

I have spoken with a very helpful chap there, he checked with their underwriter for me. As soon as I leave the public highway I am not covered, therefore I ride at my own risk!

-- Edited by nickpdo on Friday 3rd of September 2010 03:40:20 PM

hampsterracing · Devon's Best

Noel our group chair has gone into this in a big way to make the DGTRF events happen.

If this is an issue for people i would suggest contacting him to ask an informed person how it all works.

As noel is not a member of this forum i would suggest contacting him personally or via the private forum.

Or if he has advance warning i'm sure this could be addressed at the next group meeting.

BUT

if we find that our personal RTA insurance does not cover us for public places that will be the end of our Fun days.

we do not have track days or any other form of racing/competetive event.

Roger

Ming · Devon's Best

What exactly is the "cover" covering?

If the insurances are null and void because of a technicality, does that mean that we are not insured if we cause damage/injury to others/property or that we are not legally allowed to actually ride the bike on a private land "event".

I didn't have insurance on my trials bike as it isn't road registered and competed in a "race or test" - I guess the organising club had some sort of insurance in place so that if any rider injured somebody else the insurance company would settle any claim?

If the first point is correct, then is it not a case of getting everybody there to sign a disclaimer saying they will not claim for damages/injury if anything happens? Would be a huge loss, both to our enjoyment and to the fundraising efforts of the TRF groups if we had to drop the fun days cry

hampsterracing · Devon's Best

It is way more complicated than you could possibly imagine !!!

A very short bit from my understanding is as follows.but noel is the man who knows

to run any event you must be affiliated to the ACU or RAC then hold all licences and insurances etc.other wise you risk prosecution for breaking the road rules in your private field !!

we can get over this by designating our fun day venues as a public place. and your RTA insurance does cover you for public places (sainsburys car park etc) (despite what a quick call to the broker says). This is why we have to ensure all bikes and riders are fully road legal and you sign to say you are when you arrive and sign on.

Disclaimers are a no go as they are proven to be entirely useless and do not stand up in a court.

this has been gone into at a high level with the BMF to enable us to run how we do.

i think we set up the "model" other clubs now use.

hope this helps

roger

KronreifTrunkenpolzMattighofen · Devon's Best

I for one am happy to carry on as we were. wink

Plus the fact that my form and cheque has gone via our Majesty's postal service for the STRF event! biggrin

-- Edited by nickpdo on Friday 3rd of September 2010 07:13:59 PM

Ming · Devon's Best

So..............we can legitimately continue running/attending TRF backed "fun days" on private land as long as our bikes are road legal?

Good - 'cause I've got the application form for the Somerset event ready to post!