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Clubman A

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Rights of way question


Looking for a bit of help or advice on this, see photos.It has appeared on a very popular walk from our village.  The OS map shows a path down to the shore.

It looks like they have applied to close it.

Does anyone know what it means?

DCC seem to have some money kicking around for some shiner new signs perhaps they could put some up for us.

thanks in anticipation 

Trev

IMG_2208.PNG

 



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Clubman A

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Trevor, I have replied to your email.



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Clubman A

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Thanks Ray



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Clubman A

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I imagine this has its roots in the compulsory purchase orders made in order to progress the planned cycleway along the north shore of the river Teign which will have rattled all the landowners.

The statement probably does not threaten the Public Footpath but is more likely an attempt to restrict public access rights over land accessed via the Footpath, but without seeing the portion outlined in red on the attached map it is not possible to say definitively.

Judging by the name a new non local landowner is trying to protect his rights over the land he now owns by making a statement that there are no public rights over the land. Such statements deposited with the county council can and have prevented the creation of Footpaths/Bridleways/Byways because they can be shown at Public Inquiries as a form of proof that a public right does not exist, unless their creation inspires the depositing of a Definitive Map Modification Order which will very likely cause the scheme to backfire spectactularly. If this landowners statement is not challenged then it will be difficult in future to prevent the installation of barriers preventing access.

In order to force the landowners hand a DMMO should now be made to the County Council if you have reason to believe public rights exits over the land. For example you may have been in the habit of walking your dog over a regular route over a substantial period (usually ten years) without anyone ever telling you you should not be doing so and had always presumed you had a right to do so, and by so doing you could find that you and the others also using the path have caused the deemed creation of a new Public Right of Way which the County Council will have a duty to add to the Definitive Map on discovery of the fact on receiving your DMMO application.

The creation of new ways for motor vehicles is very complex and extremely difficult following the Natural England & Rural Commumities Act but the good news is that it is still possible to create a new Footpath by the simple expedient of using it regularly without challenge over several years.

The TRF has much experience in these matters and if you want help in filling the forms in I am sure it will be forthcoming.

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Clubman A

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The Devon County Council Environment Viewer will show where land owners have made a Section 31(6) deposit, highlighted in pink, and the landowners/order details.

DCC viewer Flow Point Sec 31 .JPG  

DCC viewer Flow Point Sec 31 1.JPG

 



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Clubman A

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IMG_2209.PNG

The councils signs look pretty permanent and I think will frighten people into thinking they are no longer allowed down there.  Nothing has changed really just the land owner doesn't want people wandering all over his patch.

the parish council is going to have a meeting..........



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Clubman B

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Curiously the Crown Estates foreshore and estuary map suggests that the land beyond the right of way is accessible by the public

www.arcgis.com/apps/Viewer/index.html

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Clubman A

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youaintseenme wrote:

Curiously the Crown Estates foreshore and estuary map suggests that the land beyond the right of way is accessible by the public

www.arcgis.com/apps/Viewer/index.html


 Does the purple colour indicate public access? If so, it doesn't include the land referred to in the Sec 31(6) statement in pink.

foreshore and estuary map flow point.JPG

DCC viewer Flow Point Sec 31 .JPG



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Clubman A

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Trevor Foxon wrote:

IMG_2209.PNG

The councils signs look pretty permanent and I think will frighten people into thinking they are no longer allowed down there.  Nothing has changed really just the land owner doesn't want people wandering all over his patch.

the parish council is going to have a meeting..........


 

Guidance regarding this statement can be found here https://www.devon.gov.uk/prow/information-for-landowners/protecting-your-land/

 

It says ''Regular use by the public of an informal path, or land for lawful sports and pastimes, can result in those rights being formalised and recorded. You can protect your land against claims for public rights of way, or village green rights, by showing that, at the relevant time, you did not intend these rights to be acquired. This can be done by physical actions such as displaying notices, fencing the land or locking gates.

One option for landowners to protect their land is set out in legislation:

Section 31(6) of the Highways Act 1980 enables a landowner to deposit a statement accompanied by a map, acknowledging any existing public rights of way across their land at the same time as declaring that they have no intention of dedicating any further routes to the public (view the interactive map to see existing public rights of way). This is known as a highways statement and will protect the land for a period twenty years from the date of the deposit. However, it must be followed up with a declaration within this period, to ensure continued protection of the land for a further twenty years from the date of the declaration.

Section 15A of the Commons Act 2006 enables a landowner to deposit a landowner statement accompanied by a map, which can be combined with a highways statement, to protect that landowner's land from registration as a town or village green as well as protecting the land from claims for additional rights of way.

Once lodged with the County Council, the map, statement and declaration become public documents and available for public inspection. All local authorities are required to keep a public register of maps and statements deposited, and declarations lodged under Section 31(6) of the Highways Act 1980.'' 

 

The highway statement at Flow Point will have been instigated by the landowner, who has noticed members of the public walking across his land where there is no recorded public Right of Way. 

If this public use continues unchallenged for a period of 20 years or more, then there can be a presumed dedication that the landowner intended that the route would become a right of way and a footpath could be created and recorded. 

This is why you will see signs that say Private or No Right of Way, or locked gates. It is the landowner confirming that they are not allowing the public to freely use their land as a route. 

If a Landowner notices that the public are using an unrecorded route across his land, to prevent a presumed dedication of a new path, the landowner can make a statements and declaration with the county council acknowledging any public rights of way across their land and stating that, at that time, they have no intention to dedicate any further public rights of way. The council are required to display the Statement and map.

 The land at Flow Point outlined in pink is private. The landowner does not want a presumed dedication of a new footpath across it, so has completed the Section 31(6) process and has shown the current recorded cul-de-sac footpath. There are no other public routes down there.

The council must display the statement, otherwise how would anyone know, and keep a register. 

If there has been presumed dedication type use of a route down at Flow Point prior to this statement being laid by the owner, then a DMMO application could be made to formerly record the new footpath, your Parish Council should know the process and evidence required.

 



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Clubman A

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As I see it I can still use the footpath to get to the beach.  The footpath ends at MHWS, at that point it becomes the crown estates property which I beleive you can walk on.

I think some people do more than that and walk round the edge of his land when the tides in.  It's probably this he wants stopping, which I would understand.



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Clubman A

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Trevor Foxon wrote:

As I see it I can still use the footpath to get to the beach.  The footpath ends at MHWS, at that point it becomes the crown estates property which I beleive you can walk on.

I think some people do more than that and walk round the edge of his land when the tides in.  It's probably this he wants stopping, which I would understand.


 The landowner may find that people have been using his land over the previous 20 years and by so doing have created a new public right of way, but only if this is put to the test by the submission of a DMMO which would force the County Council to perform their duty to add such to the Definitive Map after the matter has been examined at a Public Inquiry should there be objections to the proposal to add the way as a public footpath, which is inevitable as that is what the landowner is trying to avoid...

If there is a way along the foreshore without trespassing onto the landowners property this should not be a problem anyway



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Clubman B

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Yes, it would seem that the landowner cannot stop us accessing the foreshore via the footpath (which from a RoW perspective is a dead end) but wishes to stop any wandering off the route

It would have been helpful if the DCC notice had hinted at public access onto the foreshore beyond the end of the path.

Perhaps the natives can organise a sign that says 'public footpath to foreshore'


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Clubman A

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This came up at the Devon Access Form meeting recently, apparently there is a desire by some to deter people from the foreshore to protect the bird life, I suspect this maybe partly NIMBYism.



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